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August 2009 
A Post from the Santa Monica Integral Matrix meetup group
Posted on Jan 11th, 2008
by 
dugaum
dugaum
Source http://kenwilber.meetup.com/59/
First off, Cheers to Eliot & Jana for really doing their homework on the environmental issue. If any issue deserves a comprehensive & inclusive (integral) approach, it is environmental concerns.
I thought I would make a little attempt to clarify the meaning Zone 1 and Zone 2 as used by Ken Wilber. I felt in myself (and perhaps in others) a little uncertainty about these points in our discussion at the meetup and also in Eliot's latest post on "A Zone 2 Perspective on Environmentalism".
Eliot said in his post, "Ken Wilber reminds us, for example, that Zone One discloses the beauty of meditation, and Zone Two discloses the meaning of Spiral Dynamics, AND that these two types of development are largely discrete, cognitively ("NO amount of meditation will EVER disclose ANYTHING like SD", KW [my emphasis, for clarity]). "
Here is Wilber in Integral Spirituality. (Note: I added the brackets in quotes below)
(IS, pg. 38)
"Here's the point: you can sit on your meditation mat for decades, and you will NEVER see anything resembling the stages of Spiral Dynamics. And you can study Spiral Dynamics till the cows come home, and you will NEVER have a satori. And the integral point is, if you don't include both, you will likely never understand human beings or their relation to Reality, divine or otherwise.
Meditative understanding involves preeminently a methodology of looking at the 'I' from the inside (using phenomenology)[zone 1]; Spiral Dynamics involves studying it from the outside (using structuralism)[zone 2]. Both of them are studying a person's consciousness, but they see very different things because they are inhabiting a different stance or perspective, using different methodologies. Further, a person could be quite advanced in one, and not in the other, or vice versa, and there is no way to tell using either of their yardsticks; they can't even see each other!"
(IS, pg. 196)
"There is another reason that religions, in order to act as the great conveyor belt of humanity, should incorporate meditative, contemplative, and nonordinary states (gross, subtle, causal, nondual) into their curricula, and that is not just to stop forcing kids into raves and grown adults into tent revivals, but for the profoundly beneficial effect that states have on stages. As we saw: the more you experience various states, the more quickly you develop through the stages.
Under no circumstances that we are aware of can you skip stages in any line--stages cannot be skipped--but considerable research has demonstrated that the more you experience meditative or contemplative states of consciousness, the faster you develop through the stages of consciousness. No other single practice or technique--not therapy, not breath-work, not transformative workshops, not role-taking, not hatha yoga--has been empirically demonstrated to do this. Meditation alone has done so. For example, whereas around 2% of the adult population is at second tier, after 4 years of meditation, that 2% goes to 38% in the meditation group. This is truly staggering research.
As we saw, the reason meditation does so is simple enough. When you meditate, you are in effect witnessing the mind, thus turning subject into object--which is exactly the core mechanism of development ('the subject of one stage becomes the object of the subject of the next').*
So no matter what general stage you are at when you begin (red, amber, orange, green,
etc.), you can directly experience meditative or contemplative or ecstatic or nonordinary states
(gross, subtle, causal, nondual), and not only do those states carry profound experiences
themselves, they will accelerate your growth and development through the stages."
One point I wanted to make in this discussion is that meditation will not 'disclose' stages as Eliot has pointed out, but meditation will accelerate growth through the stages. And, I would add that actually developing through stages will assist one in being able to see the stages more clearly using the zone 2 methodologies. The second point of this post is that learning about the 'Stages of Development' using a Zone 2 methodology may perhaps increase cognitive understanding, but meditation may actually increase compassion, thus allowing one to relate to & assist others at varying stages of growth with more skillful means.
In conclusion, I would say 'both/and' to Zone 1/Zone 2 (and of course the other 6 Zones as well).
In an Integral Approach, Big Mind and Big Heart are 'Not Two'.
Blessings,
Doug (dugaum)
First off, Cheers to Eliot & Jana for really doing their homework on the environmental issue. If any issue deserves a comprehensive & inclusive (integral) approach, it is environmental concerns.
I thought I would make a little attempt to clarify the meaning Zone 1 and Zone 2 as used by Ken Wilber. I felt in myself (and perhaps in others) a little uncertainty about these points in our discussion at the meetup and also in Eliot's latest post on "A Zone 2 Perspective on Environmentalism".
Eliot said in his post, "Ken Wilber reminds us, for example, that Zone One discloses the beauty of meditation, and Zone Two discloses the meaning of Spiral Dynamics, AND that these two types of development are largely discrete, cognitively ("NO amount of meditation will EVER disclose ANYTHING like SD", KW [my emphasis, for clarity]). "
Here is Wilber in Integral Spirituality. (Note: I added the brackets in quotes below)
(IS, pg. 38)
"Here's the point: you can sit on your meditation mat for decades, and you will NEVER see anything resembling the stages of Spiral Dynamics. And you can study Spiral Dynamics till the cows come home, and you will NEVER have a satori. And the integral point is, if you don't include both, you will likely never understand human beings or their relation to Reality, divine or otherwise.
Meditative understanding involves preeminently a methodology of looking at the 'I' from the inside (using phenomenology)[zone 1]; Spiral Dynamics involves studying it from the outside (using structuralism)[zone 2]. Both of them are studying a person's consciousness, but they see very different things because they are inhabiting a different stance or perspective, using different methodologies. Further, a person could be quite advanced in one, and not in the other, or vice versa, and there is no way to tell using either of their yardsticks; they can't even see each other!"
(IS, pg. 196)
"There is another reason that religions, in order to act as the great conveyor belt of humanity, should incorporate meditative, contemplative, and nonordinary states (gross, subtle, causal, nondual) into their curricula, and that is not just to stop forcing kids into raves and grown adults into tent revivals, but for the profoundly beneficial effect that states have on stages. As we saw: the more you experience various states, the more quickly you develop through the stages.
Under no circumstances that we are aware of can you skip stages in any line--stages cannot be skipped--but considerable research has demonstrated that the more you experience meditative or contemplative states of consciousness, the faster you develop through the stages of consciousness. No other single practice or technique--not therapy, not breath-work, not transformative workshops, not role-taking, not hatha yoga--has been empirically demonstrated to do this. Meditation alone has done so. For example, whereas around 2% of the adult population is at second tier, after 4 years of meditation, that 2% goes to 38% in the meditation group. This is truly staggering research.
As we saw, the reason meditation does so is simple enough. When you meditate, you are in effect witnessing the mind, thus turning subject into object--which is exactly the core mechanism of development ('the subject of one stage becomes the object of the subject of the next').*
So no matter what general stage you are at when you begin (red, amber, orange, green,
etc.), you can directly experience meditative or contemplative or ecstatic or nonordinary states
(gross, subtle, causal, nondual), and not only do those states carry profound experiences
themselves, they will accelerate your growth and development through the stages."
One point I wanted to make in this discussion is that meditation will not 'disclose' stages as Eliot has pointed out, but meditation will accelerate growth through the stages. And, I would add that actually developing through stages will assist one in being able to see the stages more clearly using the zone 2 methodologies. The second point of this post is that learning about the 'Stages of Development' using a Zone 2 methodology may perhaps increase cognitive understanding, but meditation may actually increase compassion, thus allowing one to relate to & assist others at varying stages of growth with more skillful means.
In conclusion, I would say 'both/and' to Zone 1/Zone 2 (and of course the other 6 Zones as well).
In an Integral Approach, Big Mind and Big Heart are 'Not Two'.
Blessings,
Doug (dugaum)
Edited by Doug Wallack on Dec 10, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Access: Public
